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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1625
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 21:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
It all depends on how diplomatically inclined you are. This could change though if CCP fixes sov and nerfs highsec, it'd be easier for you then. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1625
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 00:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:La Nariz wrote:It all depends on how diplomatically inclined you are. This could change though if CCP fixes sov and nerfs highsec, it'd be easier for you then. Why is this always the answer of some..."Nerf High sec".. How exactly would that change anything? How exactly has it changed anything in the past? Yes, High Sec has been nerfed over and over.... and little if anything has changed. High sec and null sec should be equal but separate experiences. I believe High Sec nerfs have gone too far as it is. Diplomacy is only one tool that CFC has harnessed to good effect. Yes, they (CFC) can be treacherous but what alliance with ambition does not want strong friends or at least strong temporary NAPed allies?
Its nerf highsec because highsec is too good to the point it depopulated nullsec. CCP said they can't buff nullsec because it could destroy the economy hence the only option is to nerf highsec.
Diplomacy is where most groups fail hence people need to stop being antisocial autists and try making friends for a change. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1626
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 05:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:baltec1 wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:baltec1 wrote:So why have 80% of bots moved into high sec?
The numbers are all there. High sec is simply better for earning isk than null sov space. Bots are in highsec for the same reason most everyone else is, lower occurrence of interruption and reduced risk of loss. Bots go where the isk is, much like players. Neither of us have a problem with staying safe in null or interuptions. It has been shown that high sec combat pve will earn more in high sec so it is no shock that most bots are now found clustered in the mission hubs around jita. Wrong bots go where they can consistently and without interruption grind out average isk over long periods of time. Please present your CCP data and also show how you link bots even in a tenuous way to best profitability of sec status. I have presented my evidence to the forums, in the form of my experiences both running L4 and running combat anoms and have shown conclusively that you can make 10's of billions of isk per month doing several anoms in null sec per day vs grinding crap isk and LP in L4's in high sec all day and not making anywhere near as much. That you're incapable of doing the same because you blued and rented out all the available space from the bottom of Period Basis to the top of Tenal and choose not to use that space blued and rented does not equal less profitability. All it shows is the majority of Goons and CFC are happy to allow all that isk to go to other people, primarily the heads of your aliances to make their RMT wallets fatter. While you could probably spruce up some data from someone with no life who plays 23 hours a day running multiple accounts and blitzing tons of agents with multiple ships in multiple systems in high sec and makes as much its a disingenuous comparison vs me who can only play a few hours a day, does the PvE with one ship and one scout.
Are you a botter then, is that how you know what bots do?
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1626
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 13:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:baltec1 wrote:Your Dad Naked wrote:Baltec, soloing L4s in hi-sec will not earn you 120 mil/hour. If you are very quick maybe you'll get 50? Now if w'ere talking about multiboxing it, different story. Anyways, I still agree about hi-sec profits overall.
It was tested with a single mach, it pulled 118 mil/hr. 50 mil/hr was what a single ishtar was netting in level 3 missions even after the drone changes. LOL..yes, people certainly believe any proof coming from a goon, who set the standard for honesty in the game. Hey baltec, according to another study with equal veracity as this, you are considered as a safer person for 3rd party super-cap trading than Chribba.
I can verify that claim Baltec1 handled the escrow when I was buying a titan. I got my titan the seller got their money and everyone lived happily ever after. Would use Baltec1 again. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1626
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 16:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Andski wrote:in fact I advise anyone reading this thread to just ignore whatever Infinity Ziona says because he literally posts complete lies in every thread about 0.0 (such as "I make 100 billion isk per hour in -0.1 systems it's not broken!!!!") and in fact doesn't really have the first clue about the subjects he talks about
This literally can't be emphasized enough.
Infinity Ziona wrote:I just want to see Goons burn
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4159522#post4159522
The dude has no clue about anything he talks about but, really hates us so even if we want a change that is good for the game and to our detriment, supercap/tech/FW/sovfix/drone assist, he'd be against it. Ignoring him is an anodyne for your own mental health.
E: See sig for proof highsec needs a nerf. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1636
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 23:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:La Nariz wrote:Andski wrote:in fact I advise anyone reading this thread to just ignore whatever Infinity Ziona says because he literally posts complete lies in every thread about 0.0 (such as "I make 100 billion isk per hour in -0.1 systems it's not broken!!!!") and in fact doesn't really have the first clue about the subjects he talks about This literally can't be emphasized enough. Infinity Ziona wrote:I just want to see Goons burn https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4159522#post4159522The dude has no clue about anything he talks about but, really hates us so even if we want a change that is good for the game and to our detriment, supercap/tech/FW/sovfix/drone assist, he'd be against it. Ignoring him is an anodyne for your own mental health. E: See sig for proof highsec needs a nerf. I concur. Everyone should only believes Goons because.. Well they're so unbiased and truthful :)
See the difference between the two of us is I can and did prove what I claimed. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1636
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 04:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:You can't destroy anything in Sov space so there is no "thousand pinpricks". A trillion isk worth of ships will fail to kill even a hundred million isk POCO. Sov null is more secure than a 1.0 high sec system. I destroyed an ESS last week. Since when are ESS sov structures?
That depends on the definition of sov and when. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1637
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 14:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:La Nariz wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:You can't destroy anything in Sov space so there is no "thousand pinpricks". A trillion isk worth of ships will fail to kill even a hundred million isk POCO. Sov null is more secure than a 1.0 high sec system. I destroyed an ESS last week. Since when are ESS sov structures? That depends on the definition of sov and when. No it doesn't. The ESS is not a sov structure like a POCO, TCU, POS, or Outpost. Sov Structures all have one thing in common. They send a message to the owner when they're attacked. Its the analog of a poco except it does LP and isk instead of P1/2/3/4. Sov structures all have one thing in common. Infinity Ziona is willfully stupid about them or has contracted some horrible mental disease that prevents her from understanding the truth. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1637
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 14:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Inxentas Ultramar wrote: Small guys stay small guys because they don't feel like sucking up to some Alliance's middle management, they don't have the resources to compete, or perhaps they don't have the time to dedicate to Eve's rediculous Sov mechanics and bureaucratic alliance nonsense. I sure don't. Nullsec simply isn't suitable for how we want to play, and lowsec is losing it's charm rapidly. Hisec (wardecs) and wormhole space (unrestricted PVP) are simply better, more enjoyable alternatives then living in the shadow of a colossus.
Right there we have the answer folks, people that refuse to engage in diplomacy and politics can't get anywhere in a multiplayer game.
E: They literally don't feel like doing what it takes to succeed. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1637
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 14:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:La Nariz wrote:Inxentas Ultramar wrote: Small guys stay small guys because they don't feel like sucking up to some Alliance's middle management, they don't have the resources to compete, or perhaps they don't have the time to dedicate to Eve's rediculous Sov mechanics and bureaucratic alliance nonsense. I sure don't. Nullsec simply isn't suitable for how we want to play, and lowsec is losing it's charm rapidly. Hisec (wardecs) and wormhole space (unrestricted PVP) are simply better, more enjoyable alternatives then living in the shadow of a colossus.
Right there we have the answer folks, people that refuse to engage in diplomacy and politics can't get anywhere in a multiplayer game. Except it isn't even success. Let's say hypothetically he did what you asked, and "engaged in diplomacy." OK - now he's part of some giant blue entity that barely PvP's against eachother. Was that even the goal?
I think you have the same disease infinity ziona has. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1639
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 14:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:La Nariz wrote:I think you have the same disease infinity ziona has. My disease is not liking a blue nullsec. If more people had this disease, EVE would be a better game.
This is proof you have the same disease, don't worry scientists are working on a cure as we speak. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1639
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 14:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:La Nariz wrote:Pinky Hops wrote:La Nariz wrote:I think you have the same disease infinity ziona has. My disease is not liking a blue nullsec. If more people had this disease, EVE would be a better game. This is proof you have the same disease, don't worry scientists are working on a cure as we speak. So you prefer blue nullsec to an area with active PvP? Have you ever heard of a game named FarmVille? You might like it. Sounds right up your alley. Let's all hold hands and sing Kumbaya after a round of diplomacy.
I would prefer to speak with someone who acknowledges facts, data, and doesn't let their prejudices prevent them from honestly discussing something. Those scientists need to hurry. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1639
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 15:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:I'll take that as a yes, then. Judging by your perspective you think the following: 1) Nullsec is not blue enough. It needs to be more blue - with less PvP 2) People should engage in more diplomacy. Instead of fighting, they should forge agreements. 3) Nobody should be allowed into nullsec unless they agree with both 1) and 2) Do I understand you correctly? I think we can all be thankful CCP ignores you.
You really had to abbreviate two sentences? This is now a very relevant question.
knobber Jobbler wrote:Do you have reading comprehension issues? This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1639
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 15:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote: Sorry, I don't speak stupid, so I had to roughly translate you.
All I know is, you babble a lot about diplomacy and how awesome setting people to blue is.
I am again, very thankful that CCP does not listen to you.
Oh man the irony ahahahahahahahahahahaha. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1639
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 15:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:La Nariz wrote:Pinky Hops wrote: Sorry, I don't speak stupid, so I had to roughly translate you.
All I know is, you babble a lot about diplomacy and how awesome setting people to blue is.
I am again, very thankful that CCP does not listen to you.
Oh man the irony ahahahahahahahahahahaha. Yes, because I am well known for holding the position that nullsec should be a bastion of carebears who all set eachother to blue. Oh wait, that's you.
No you're well known for being willfully stupid to the point we have to dumb down what we're talking about or completely re-explain it to you multiple times. I give you a little lee-way because of your disease but, that only goes so far. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1639
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 15:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote: No you're well known for being willfully stupid to the point we have to dumb down what we're talking about or completely re-explain it to you multiple times. I give you a little lee-way because of your disease but, that only goes so far.
If you want, I can go back in this thread and point out all the examples of you rambling like a crazy person about how nullsec is about diplomacy and setting people to blue.
Again, thankfully CCP does not share this vision with you.
EVE would have died 7 years ago.
But by all means, keep rambling. It's not going to help you much.[/quote]
Rambling? I am being a humanitarian by refusing to engage with people incapable of honestly discussing a topic. Really I'm doing you a favor as we've all seen in other threads you don't do well when someone presents facts and data to counter your position that was derived from prejudice. Really you're a space bigot. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1639
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 15:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:La Nariz wrote: I am being a humanitarian by refusing to engage with people incapable of honestly discussing a topic. Really I'm doing you a favor as we've all seen in other threads you don't do well when someone presents facts and data to counter your position that was derived from prejudice. Really you're a space bigot. Your idea of data is a guy who runs 10 missions in a row, makes X isk an hour, and that is universally taken to mean that "highsec is better than nullsec." Mental handicaps indeed.
See this is part of your disease, you're deliberately leaving out cited devblogs and CCP released statistics. This is why we can't a have a discussion you won't honestly answer a question/discuss so until the scientists come up a cure for your disease there is nothing we can do. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1639
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 15:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote: Such vitriol.
I must have really hurt your feelings at some point.
Also, I just flipped a coin 10 times in a row and got heads 7 times.
We can thus logically conclude that the chances of getting heads is 70%.
This conclusion lines up with your statistical practices.
Which has nothing to do with anything we were talking about, more examples of your disease process. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1640
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 15:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote: You were rambling about data and statistics so I took the opportunity to click the link in your sig, and it showed like 10 data points.
I guess pointing out people's bullshit is kind of an affliction of mine.
"Disease" seems a bit harsh, though.
La Nariz wrote: I would prefer to speak with someone who acknowledges facts, data, and doesn't let their prejudices prevent them from honestly discussing something. Those scientists need to hurry.
La Nariz wrote: See this is part of your disease, you're deliberately leaving out cited devblogs and CCP released statistics. This is why we can't a have a discussion you won't honestly answer a question/discuss so until the scientists come up a cure for your disease there is nothing we can do.
You're spewing bullshit, you refuse to acknowledge facts/data that conflict with your worldview and you won't discuss anything honestly. See you you cherry-picked what I said to try and discredit me without actually providing reasons or support. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1643
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 15:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mocam wrote: No but you aren't thinking too clearly.
Any group from 50-1,000 cannot go there without permission - that is the bulk of the player base in this game and many/most have been part of differing alliances over their time here.
The "smaller" groups aren't unwilling to engage in diplomacy, those are groups that are unwilling to kneel to a 10k+ coalition, paying "rent" and simply becoming a statistic in their spreadsheet based schemes. That's not too interesting to many vs flying with people you know and can work with, who also know you.
The reason SOV lands are the way they are is simple: The members living there *LIKE* the situation or they'd change it themselves - which they won't do.
As such I'd go with adding some space to the game. Something different than the currently layout so "power projection" won't work easily from SOV lands.
It has been 5 years since CCP added to the game universe (wormhole space) so it is about due to expand a bit again vs trying to revamp and "fix" portions of the game that the residents are comfortable with - especially some 20k-40k characters in SOV null who don't want their space to change beyond getting easier and requiring less time and effort from them.
A few more severs with space added would be a hell of a lot easier to engineer and manage than trying to adjust SOV lands when the bulk of those who control it, *LIKE* how it works (or,again, they would change how it works themselves).
Again - it's simply time to add more systems to the game for those not interested in how current SOV lands work but would like to lay a claim to some space.
You're also going to parrot people aren't willing to play politics or engage in diplomacy. This isn't highsec, you don't get to be stubborn and have no consequences; you have to negotiate and if you're doing so from a position of weakness you aren't going to be the one who has the power to call the shots.
It would be easier to do this if highsec were nerfed though because there would be more competition for nullsec as people pursued riches which puts more pressure on the established powers. This gives the little guy more of a diplomatic advantage because its to the established power's advantage to work with you since there are more people who want the space. Some of those people who want the space will be stubborn and trying to fight for it which while the 100 man alliance won't be able to critically harm the 1000 man alliance they will cause enough disruption to be a concern. That big alliance decides to make a deal with you to both of your advantage, the little guy gets out in null and has a friend while the big alliance has one less enemy to deal with. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1643
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 15:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:La Nariz wrote:You're spewing bullshit, you refuse to acknowledge facts/data that conflict with your worldview and you won't discuss anything honestly. See you you cherry-picked what I said to try and discredit me without actually providing reasons or support. You ran 10 Forsaken Hubs in a row in nullsec, and use this amazing "statistical data" to prove that "nullsec is terrible." This is why people laugh at you. admiral root wrote:Kimmi also provided data. This is exactly what La Nariz is saying - you selectively ignore relevant information because it doesn't help your case. Seeing as you're so invested in that particular argument, might I be so bold as to enquire where your collected data on the subject can be viewed? Yeah, Kimmi ran 10 missions in a row and then they had a Conference comparing numbers. You will all be awarded the Nobel Prize in Economics for your amazing and thorough understanding of the EVE Economy - reducing the system down to Forsaken Hubs and Missions. Everybody stop arguing, they got it all figured out.
La Nariz wrote: See this is part of your disease, you're deliberately leaving out cited devblogs and CCP released statistics. This is why we can't a have a discussion you won't honestly answer a question/discuss so until the scientists come up a cure for your disease there is nothing we can do.
Again you're only cherry picking one part of the argument, then doing strawman crap so you can continue to be a space bigot.
E: When that fails you decide to move goal posts or avoid questions that would defeat your argument. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1643
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 16:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:Please link all dev blogs relevant to the discussion at hand.
Considering you think comparing 10 missions to 10 forsaken hubs is conclusive evidence of imbalance, I have no possible way of predicting what you consider to be "relevant."
Why? You didn't change your opinion based on fact in the 150+ page thread after Tippia linked them to you, why would you do so now? Why should I expend any effort on you while you that horrible disease? This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1646
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 16:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:admiral root wrote:So now you're changing your story and we have 20 data points, not 10. That's 100% more data. Please tell me you are trolling. admiral root wrote:Now, where's your data so that we can compare it? I'm not the one making ridiculous claims. The burden of data is on the people making the claims. La Nariz wrote:Pinky Hops wrote:Please link all dev blogs relevant to the discussion at hand.
Considering you think comparing 10 missions to 10 forsaken hubs is conclusive evidence of imbalance, I have no possible way of predicting what you consider to be "relevant." Why? You didn't change your opinion based on fact in the 150+ page thread after Tippia linked them to you, why would you do so now? Why should I expend any effort on you while you that horrible disease? So, you are deliberately withholding what you consider to be relevant to twist this thread into ad hominem. Or, far more likely, because the dev blog data doesn't your claims, and thus makes you look silly.
Nope, I am telling you, you aren't worth the time to discuss anything because you've already made up your mind and won't have it be changed by things such as "fact" and "data." This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1646
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 16:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:1 + 1 = 3
Don't ask me to prove it. You're all far too diseased and biased.
You can actually find the proof on a dev blog, but I can't be bothered to link it to you right now because I already linked it to you in the past and you said it was bullshit.
Prove that you form your opinion based on fact and data. We literally can't discuss anything because of that horrible mental affliction of yours until you can prove that there isn't a point to doing anything. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1649
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 16:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Man, here we go again.
I hope CCP shuts down this thread asap, given goons are derailing the thread again about ISK / hour.
Bottom line, CCP has the numbers about how much money is made where. They see who owns the titans, who does not. They see the ISK / tick for everyone.
I firmly believe they will be nerfing high sec again, but the goons whining in this thread, or any thread, is not how the nerf gets done. The only reason the goons whine here is when the inevitable nerf happens, they can say it ONLY happened because of their wise direction here, and how CCP finally saw the light, ignoring all the other less obvious pressure applied to destroy high sec.
Of course, a nerf to high sec is really really bad for the game in general, but great for the goons. But they already know that.
dinsdale tears fofofo! This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1649
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 16:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:You actually argued my own point for me. Thanks. Do you see now why I asked La Ngjdirhg to link the dev blogs he considered relevant?
Until you can prove that your opinion is formed on fact and data we can talk until then I hope the scientists hurry up with that cure. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1650
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 16:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:La Nariz wrote:Pinky Hops wrote:You actually argued my own point for me. Thanks. Do you see now why I asked La Ngjdirhg to link the dev blogs he considered relevant? Until you can prove that your opinion is formed on fact and data we can talk until then I hope the scientists hurry up with that cure. Now I know how Bill Nye felt arguing with that creationist the other week. The only way to "prove" that "my opinion is formed on fact and data" would be to admit you are right before we started. You probably have your own separate special definitions of what a "fact" is that is entirely different from what everybody else considers it to be, again, just like that creationist guy.
No it would be to answer the questions Tippia posed to you in that 150 page thread which you tried and failed to sidestep. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1651
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 17:04:00 -
[28] - Quote
Part of the biggest problem seems to be people not willing to do what it takes. We've already seen two examples of people not willing to play politics or participate in diplomacy in the zone specifically designed for it. This could be minimized too if you give people a reason to want nullsec space, like economic incentives, that you could get by nerfing highsec.
Sure the leader takes a hit to their own pride and submits to someone more powerful or agrees to take a deal that doesn't leave them with the better part of the bargain but, it gets them into nullsec and to a starting point. Everyone has to start out somewhere and you won't get to be a power player right from the start.
I see this mindset in highsec a lot though where after awoxing someone they outright refuse to negotiate with me which gets more of them killed. Instead of reasoning with me or bargaining when I say 250,000,000.00 isk and I'll drop corp or give me a medal they decide to spew profanity at me. For more examples look at any interaction between highsec miners and CODE., there are very reasonable and economically sound bargains being made yet probably <~1% of the miners will actually take the good deal and instead will resist which further hurts their own position.
I'm not really sure what causes this but, perhaps the NPE needs to be adjusted, maybe during the NPE the newbie needs to be give something of value, be allowed to have something of value to fly and have a scripted engagement where they get cornered by a more powerful force which requires them to negotiate giving up some of that value to have their valuable ship survive. If they act stubborn they get the chance to fight it out which it would result in the destruction of that ship but, if they try to give up some of the value they were given that ship gets to live and the npcs that cornered them join them further on in the tutorial.
I think it would help get people to consider the idea that negotiation might be a good thing instead of something to be avoided at all cost because reasons. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1652
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 17:12:00 -
[29] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: To be fair, sov mechanics are stacked against any smaller independent entity.
I would love, when they do balance sov, to have a use it or easily lose it system. For example, if you don't use a system you get no RF timers on your IHUB's & Stations, thereby enabling the system to fall from a single attack.
The tricky part is defining system "use". We have 2 indexes that show ratting and mining activity, and could easily form a basis for this new mechanic. However, these are very limited, as you can use a system for much, much more than that ratting and mining: Industry, Logistics, PvP, PI, S&I, and more.
Yeah no timers is a bad thing because it means we can steamroll half the galaxy over night especially because of the nullsec depopulation being caused by highsec. If anything your idea would further encourage renting because it would mean we have to stuff renters in every system.
The best idea I've seen is nerfing highsec and changing sov to be based on multiple objectives so you have to split forces. However I haven't seen a good idea that does the second part of that well. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1653
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 17:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:La Nariz wrote:Part of the biggest problem seems to be people not willing to do what it takes. We've already seen two examples of people not willing to play politics or participate in diplomacy in the zone specifically designed for it. This could be minimized too if you give people a reason to want nullsec space, like economic incentives, that you could get by nerfing highsec.
Sure the leader takes a hit to their own pride and submits to someone more powerful or agrees to take a deal that doesn't leave them with the better part of the bargain but, it gets them into nullsec and to a starting point. Everyone has to start out somewhere and you won't get to be a power player right from the start.
I see this mindset in highsec a lot though where after awoxing someone they outright refuse to negotiate with me which gets more of them killed. Instead of reasoning with me or bargaining when I say 250,000,000.00 isk and I'll drop corp or give me a medal they decide to spew profanity at me. For more examples look at any interaction between highsec miners and CODE., there are very reasonable and economically sound bargains being made yet probably <~1% of the miners will actually take the good deal and instead will resist which further hurts their own position.
I'm not really sure what causes this but, perhaps the NPE needs to be adjusted, maybe during the NPE the newbie needs to be give something of value, be allowed to have something of value to fly and have a scripted engagement where they get cornered by a more powerful force which requires them to negotiate giving up some of that value to have their valuable ship survive. If they act stubborn they get the chance to fight it out which it would result in the destruction of that ship but, if they try to give up some of the value they were given that ship gets to live and the npcs that cornered them join them further on in the tutorial.
I think it would help get people to consider the idea that negotiation might be a good thing instead of something to be avoided at all cost because reasons. You keep talking about the economic incentives of living in null. You do not, however, talk about the economic incentives of trying to stake a claim to your own sov. I don't see any incentive to do that. Anything I would gain from that, I could gain just as easily and with less effort by joining an established group that has thousands of players set blue to myself. And this is what the OP was really talking about. "Do you have a chance?" The answer is no - but not because it's impossible to rally forth with thousands of players - but because it's pointless. Again - all those people who could have started a new group could just join an existing group and get all the same crap with much less effort. The only thing that would prompt the creation of a new group would be fun - not economics.
I won't discuss anything with you until you can prove you can discuss things honestly and that your opinion can be changed by fact/data.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1655
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 17:44:00 -
[31] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Did you miss the qualifier: If you don't use a system you get no RF timers on your IHUB's & Stations, thereby enabling the system to fall from a single attack. I fully support timers on systems you are using. I fully support the CFC owning all of nullsec if they can take it. I don't support easily holding onto it unless they use it. Also, Marlona sky had a very interesting idea to curb power projection in EvE, something that is truly needed. Read it, as it is a good article.
I did not miss the qualifier I showed you that it was terrible because it means we pack even more renters into nullsec. That renter space will not be vulnerable to a small group because its now our income alliance and when you mess with that you get a 1000 man fleet headed to you.
Making it worth living in over highsec, by nerfing highsec, would facilitate its use and further make the timer idea bad. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1655
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 17:41:00 -
[32] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: Did you really just say the idea is terrible because it will encourage you to utilize your systems (albeit with renters)? lol, how can you possibly think that is a bad thing? More people in nullsec space is a GREAT thing!!!
Yes because renting is a terrible situation that has been forced upon us because they decided to nerf alliance level income without providing well for a bottom up approach to income. I'd rather there be tonnes of new alliances making gains into nullsec than it be packed full of renters This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1657
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 17:48:00 -
[33] - Quote
Felicity Love wrote:Diamond Zerg wrote:The little guy has a chance if he submits to the bigger guy.
... the word "submit" being a polite way of saying "bends over". Let's not sugarcoat this part of EVE, least of all where it pertains to Null.
If you're negotiating from a position of weakness you aren't going to get the best part of the deal. Being too stubborn and prideful to accept a worse position for the short term in exchange for a better position in the future, is dumb. This isn't an RPG, you aren't the destined hero who will crush the evil hordes, you're the average dude trying to lead a bunch of other average dudes to success. Humility will get you farther than myopic views. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1657
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 18:13:00 -
[34] - Quote
The bottom line of all of this is that highsec has to be nerfed, its too good to the point there are very few economic incentives in nullsec. On top of all of this bottom up income needs to be a huge thing because it encourages living and using your own space. The other half of it is that small groups who want in need to be willing to work for it and work with people. We've all seen what happens to anti-social autists (TEST) when they decide they want a slice of sov. This jolly cooperation can take a variety of forms but, it has to happen or you won't get anywhere. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1660
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 21:52:00 -
[35] - Quote
You realize all that you want to achieve can be done by nerfing highsec right? More competition means more pressure on big groups and desirable resources to play upon people's greed. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1660
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 22:34:00 -
[36] - Quote
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:La Nariz wrote:You realize all that you want to achieve can be done by nerfing highsec right? More competition means more pressure on big groups and desirable resources to play upon people's greed. Wow, you couldn't be more wrong. Or biased.
because... This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1661
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 01:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
Vespiidius wrote: You're thinking about this in a one dimensional way. The formation of markets is still possible without the massive force projection problem. In fact, without the ability to jump across eve in sub ten minutes, you might see a reason for the construction of local markets and local production. NullSec alliances refuses to sever the hisec umbilical cord because it is so easy and so profitable for a few to jump stuff down. Welping a fleet doesn't matter much when you can just jump the replacements down the next day. This backbone is just another aspect of the force projection problem.
You are wrong, logistics is one of the reasons production and resource gathering does not happen in nullsec. The other reason being highsec is too good. For example the system of Sobaseki outclasses entire nullsec regions in production/research/refining capacity and cost effectiveness. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1661
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 03:17:00 -
[38] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Even if every player owned station in null had a million build slots; why build there when building in the safety of high and low sec is just a couple minutes away? The only way to make that question answerable is to change NPC controlled manufacturing and research infrastructure to be inherently inferior to player controlled ones.
This is a good idea, it needs to be inferior but accessible, I think making it worse than the most terrible POS manufacturing module would be a good place. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1661
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 03:28:00 -
[39] - Quote
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:ooo... another possibly terrible/great idea, inter-region jump points. no cyno across regional lines... or maybe only some not others.
everyone loves a good gatecamp
You can change that into something that might make a good idea. A structure required for inter region capital jumps. It adds a bit of strategy, where to place your beachhead, and maybe the start of multiple objectives for sov wars; instead of having tonnes of people piling into one system you spread them out to several to defend your jump structures. To keep quality of life for capital pilots have cyno beacons work as these for friendlies and have all lowsec systems not require it.
The problem is structure HP no one wants to grind through. The bigger entity will still have a better use of it. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1661
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 03:39:00 -
[40] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:And there is the problem again. How much do you have to nerf high and low sec industry to make null industry attractive enough to forgo the safety of high and low sec that is only a few minutes away? It would have to be so bad that high sec industry would become a money pit with no hope of any kind of return. No one would bother building anything there due to how bad it would be. Essentially what we currently have except reversed. I am sure most of you null guys will cheer with excitement because, "F anyone not playing the game the same as me!", but it doesn't fix the problem. It just moved it to another part of the game. The core issue remains - teleportation. There will be no point in building in high and low sec if null is just a few minutes away. You will NOT be able to make null industry attractive enough without destroying low and high sec.
I don't believe you have to destroy it to make low/null/wh manufacturing good enough. The trouble with it is it sets the baseline so high that the other two can't compete so decreasing that baseline would be good enough. I don't buy that power projection is causing issues with industry as it still adds more logistical cost and risk to it, versus auto piloting your freighter to jita from sobaseki.
Importing and exporting would still occur which is okay. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1661
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 03:42:00 -
[41] - Quote
Linkxsc162534 wrote:La Nariz wrote:Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:ooo... another possibly terrible/great idea, inter-region jump points. no cyno across regional lines... or maybe only some not others.
everyone loves a good gatecamp You can change that into something that might make a good idea. A structure required for inter region capital jumps. It adds a bit of strategy, where to place your beachhead, and maybe the start of multiple objectives for sov wars; instead of having tonnes of people piling into one system you spread them out to several to defend your jump structures. To keep quality of life for capital pilots have cyno beacons work as these for friendlies and have all lowsec systems not require it. The problem is structure HP no one wants to grind through. The bigger entity will still have a better use of it. Perhaps argue that between some regions theres spatial rifts that capships have trouble jumping over. Perhaps they wouldn't be permanent either, just switch around week to week at random causing breaks in cynochains (or at least they have to go around a bit).
I don't think anyone likes RNG and the structure idea gives people an objective, the attacker wants to keep it alive and the defender wants to blow it up. One of the problems that was hit in other threads is that the sov system should have multiple objectives to break up the blob warfare. I was thinking this structure could be part of that multiple objectives idea.
Space weather would be kind of cool though. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1661
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 03:43:00 -
[42] - Quote
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
I like the using planets or suns more i think. Just examples off the top of my head, not in love with any of it. Maybe add a spool down time after jump, invulnerable but still sitting... (none for black ops)
Anything to make space big again tbh.
Sun or planet might be okay, a cooldown though not so much because that means I just need to have more alts, capitals or isk to defeat the restriction. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1661
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 04:06:00 -
[43] - Quote
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote: It's a great idea but the devil is in the details.
Do you need to make all, some or one of the multiple objectives? This question can be posed for both attacker and defender. Between attacker and defender, are the answers to that question different?
Most of the scenarios I imagine can be easily taken advantage of to the point of defeating whatever you hoped to accomplish for an underdog. Most of the scenarios I imagine involve the blob moving around, which is a bonus. But it doesn't change anything.
Blob is only influenced through in-game limitation on size. Whether through static mechanic or server load. This has been repeatedly proven time and time again in the last decade. There is no reason NOT to pile it on. And there is certainly nothing to stop it.
We can choose, we either limit ourselves by design, or by one-sided tidi turkey shoots.
Same as it ever was.
An artificial limitation in size is pretty much the antithesis of EVE, the single shard game. One of the selling features is that there isn't instanced things putting a limitation on people.
I think you could add/change mechanics to punish dogpiling or encourage division.
Those are good questions for redesiging sov, I'd think you have to position those so there are multiple paths and strategies to victory. I have to think about it more before I say how that'd happen. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1668
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 13:30:00 -
[44] - Quote
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote: There are static limitations everywhere you turn. Organizationally through squad/wing/fleet structures and in corp/alliance structure.
The real question then becomes not whether or not there are size limitations (which there so obviously are), but what the intention of said variables are, if any.
I think the idea that there is a purist form of eve is accurate. But I'd love to see you explain in anything but a love letter how a one shard universe somehow dictates limitations on mechanics.
What does that have to do with say... fleet size, or blue list size? Especially considering many mechanics are currently being dictated by what were essentially arbitrary variables.
You may not be able to imagine a better way than 0.0 that amounts to king of the hill. That doesn't change that fact that for many of us, the status quo is obviously stale.
And yes, the latest "epic" accomplishment, a giant ass blob of titans exploding.. is stale to me.
Oooo, I can't wait for next time, there will be 200 more!!
I could see size staying unlimited, if there was ever a reason to not keep everyone under one umbrella... but that isn't currently the case.
I'm asking you, do you think that's good?
Does this game only stand as a monument to the largest gang someone recently was able to field in a fight before a server failed? Can't we do better?
Because I can imagine a great deal more interesting.
Directly from the EVE sign up page:
What is your definition of epic combat? Is it fleets of hundreds clashing in battle? Is it war for control of entire constellations? Does high risk PvP get your blood racing? 1000+ ship fleet battles - hundreds of ship types - thousands of ship module options In a single-shard universe, all players are part of one community. Your actions, be they those of a savior or scourge, impact not just a small group or independent shard, but the universe itself.
Part of EVE's selling point is massive battles and massive scale, not instanced pvp. Artificially limiting the thing that keeps the game going, social interaction, is a terrible idea. I think we could do better by adding mechanics to prevent dogpilng and encourage division. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1671
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 14:06:00 -
[45] - Quote
My post from earlier in the thread is relevant.
La Nariz wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:La Nariz wrote:Andski wrote:in fact I advise anyone reading this thread to just ignore whatever Infinity Ziona says because he literally posts complete lies in every thread about 0.0 (such as "I make 100 billion isk per hour in -0.1 systems it's not broken!!!!") and in fact doesn't really have the first clue about the subjects he talks about This literally can't be emphasized enough. I just want to see Goons burn https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4159522#post4159522The dude has no clue about anything he talks about but, really hates us so even if we want a change that is good for the game and to our detriment, supercap/tech/FW/sovfix/drone assist, he'd be against it. Ignoring him is an anodyne for your own mental health. E: See sig for proof highsec needs a nerf. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1671
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 14:10:00 -
[46] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:idea: add reasons to fight people beyond "we hate those guys" and "gotta fight someone vOv"
You mean like an economic incentive and a revamp of sov? Perhaps we need to do the incentive now and nerf highsec since the sov revamp keeps being pushed back. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1672
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 14:28:00 -
[47] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:admiral root wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:If an idea results in this... ...it's because the majority of the players have permitted it. No its because whether theres a CFC in system or not as soon as you attack something CFC gets an email from the server. Its because when you attack something no matter how much stealth, teamwork and cunning you use its defeated by that email. Its because no matter how many ships you bring that thing is not killable when you choose to attack it. Its because CCP have allowed the formation of coalitions that if they were countries would put them at number 30 in terms of population from smallest to biggest (they're bigger than Monaco, Gibraltar, Virgin Islands etc). And turning up at the time chosen by those coalitions is suicide. Edit: And no its a falsehood to say I dislike Goons over anyone else in game. Goons are not CFC btw. The "I just want to watch Goons burn" was in reference to the last fleet fight not the entire coalition. Stop being paranoid.
That post I link to in my post says otherwise :smug:. I could claim that imbibing toxic substances is horrible and you'd be tripping over yourself to say other wise because "grr goons." Hell you might even hospitalize yourself trying to prove otherwise. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1673
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 17:13:00 -
[48] - Quote
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote: You can't incentivize someone into changing how they enjoy playing the game. This is why the sec's shouldn't and can't be balanced against each other.
Bears will be bears, pirate will be arrr, and null will be null.
Don't try to turn one player type into another. Won't work. EVER. It's ice skating uphill.
Identify the shortcomings and imbalances in the mechanics might force someone who more enjoys one form of gameplay to reluctantly have to fall back on another
.... or cause a group to embrace a more passive and 'blue everyone' mentality where they might otherwise prefer stabbing people in the back and shooting them.
(which again all comes back to power projection, scaling things towards a pure 'numbers in your blob' game)
Stealth "you want to force us out of highsec," no and yes you can encourage people to do things by nerfing and buffing things. Hence nerfing highsec is a good idea. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1673
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 17:44:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:Stealth "you want to force us out of highsec," no and yes you can encourage people to do things by nerfing and buffing things. Hence nerfing highsec is a good idea.
I've got plenty of words you can quote from. No need to construct strawman interpretations.
Who wants to force who out of highsec? I live in low sec, I don't understand.
[/quote][/quote]
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote: You can't incentivize someone into changing how they enjoy playing the game. This is why the sec's shouldn't and can't be balanced against each other.
That is literally a stealth "you want to force us out of highsec." This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1676
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 18:09:00 -
[50] - Quote
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:La Nariz wrote:
That is literally a stealth "you want to force us out of highsec."
No, it isn't. It's a statement on what should be the obvious divides that will exist as long as there is a high sec. No amount of nerf will make a bear choose a less safe option. It's a matter of game philosophy, not incentives. Press hard enough, you'll only convince that person to play another game. It's a "you cant force some out of highsec", what you want to do is obvious. And more power to you.... I'm just telling you it won't work. And it won't do jack to improve null.
No one was ever trying to force people out of highsec so how that even came into any of your reasoning beyond the attempt at a dog whistle "you want to force us out of highsec," is nebulous.
We want our alts to be able to live in the space we fought for and defend. Right now they are forced into highsec which isn't okay, you highsec people need to quit trying to force your play style on us. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1677
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 18:45:00 -
[51] - Quote
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:La Nariz wrote:
No one was ever trying to force people out of highsec so how that even came into any of your reasoning beyond the attempt at a dog whistle "you want to force us out of highsec," is nebulous.
We want our alts to be able to live in the space we fought for and defend. Right now they are forced into highsec which isn't okay, you highsec people need to quit trying to force your play style on us.
You were the first person to utter those words. You attributed them to me as if that was what I was implying. I already clarified to you what I was saying. And I don't even live in highsec. Try debating the people in front of you instead of the ones in your head. If you want to stop being intentionally obtuse, we could probably get back to discussing keeping the people in null sec that want to be there.
You were the one that brought the idea to the thread and now you're getting very defensive of it. I'd suggest you stop using dog whistles though it didn't turn out well for you last time. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1677
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 00:32:00 -
[52] - Quote
A highsec nerf is needed because we can't buff null because of power creep. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1677
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 03:45:00 -
[53] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Barbara Nichole wrote:baltec1 wrote: So why have 80% of bots moved into high sec?
The numbers are all there. High sec is simply better for earning isk than null sov space.
This is an old argument and it's flawed. Your numbers do not say what you think they are saying. The only reason there were more botters in high sec is because they could control their losses easier while afk. (btw the numbers of botters anywhere in game is greatly reduced) The profit from mining in null sec still out shines anything in high sec.. but there are fewer people in null sec who care to mine. I know people who mined exclusively in null sec.. and they were very rich. I mined in null sec for the first years of my eve life and it was profitable beyond belief...but residence in null sec is not a done deal. ...no one should know this better than you. Its also likely statistically flawed. The likely reason that most bots CCP has found are in and around Jita is because of population density and player reporting. Its more likely that bots in and around Jita would be noticed and reported. Its also likely that null sec bots, even when they're noticed are not reported because the likelihood that bots are blue and blues won't report other blues is very high. Additionally null sec bots are programmed to warp to POS or station when non-blues enter local so its more likely that null sec botting will not be observed by neutrals at all. The main argument against nerfing highsec to fix null is that it would equate to a buff of null sec. Isk would become more valuable. And of course it doesn't address the main issue, timers, aggression emails and power projection.
Wait CCP numbers are statistically flawed and wrong but, according to you they weren't wrong when they nerfed null bounties so how are they wrong about bots being mostly in highsec? I guess CCP is only wrong when they disagree with your world view. (Not when you catch them back peddling or contradicting their economist though.)
Further proof you and the rest of the pro-highsec people should be ignored. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1679
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 13:11:00 -
[54] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:La Nariz wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Barbara Nichole wrote:baltec1 wrote: So why have 80% of bots moved into high sec?
The numbers are all there. High sec is simply better for earning isk than null sov space.
This is an old argument and it's flawed. Your numbers do not say what you think they are saying. The only reason there were more botters in high sec is because they could control their losses easier while afk. (btw the numbers of botters anywhere in game is greatly reduced) The profit from mining in null sec still out shines anything in high sec.. but there are fewer people in null sec who care to mine. I know people who mined exclusively in null sec.. and they were very rich. I mined in null sec for the first years of my eve life and it was profitable beyond belief...but residence in null sec is not a done deal. ...no one should know this better than you. Its also likely statistically flawed. The likely reason that most bots CCP has found are in and around Jita is because of population density and player reporting. Its more likely that bots in and around Jita would be noticed and reported. Its also likely that null sec bots, even when they're noticed are not reported because the likelihood that bots are blue and blues won't report other blues is very high. Additionally null sec bots are programmed to warp to POS or station when non-blues enter local so its more likely that null sec botting will not be observed by neutrals at all. The main argument against nerfing highsec to fix null is that it would equate to a buff of null sec. Isk would become more valuable. And of course it doesn't address the main issue, timers, aggression emails and power projection. Wait CCP numbers are statistically flawed and wrong but, according to you they weren't wrong when they nerfed null bounties so how are they wrong about bots being mostly in highsec? I guess CCP is only wrong when they disagree with your world view. (Not when you catch them back peddling or contradicting their economist though.) Further proof you and the rest of the pro-highsec people should be ignored. They're wrong because they're not omnipotent and know where every bot in EVE is. Like I said, bots will be reported more often in high density space and high sec. They will be rarely reported in null because in null they operate on a warp to POS / Station as soon as a nuet or red enters system and blues will not usually report their own blue botters. In fact I have heard that alliance directors in the past advising not to report blues as botters and I've heard that in Goonswarm you're likely to not be appreciated if you report blue botters.
I find it really funny that CCP is only wrong when it doesn't support your view of how EVE should be.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1684
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 16:02:00 -
[55] - Quote
Back to the topic at hand, highsec definitely needs a nerf so there can be more competition over nullsec via economic incentives. Nullsec needs the bottom up approach to work for alliance level income to combat the depopulation and to start the "farms and fields approach." Sov needs less HP/Timers and more objectives. People refuse to engage in diplomacy/negotiation/bargaining/politics in the zone that requires them and is all about them.
Did I miss anything?
For emphasis highsec is in dire need of a nerf. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1684
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 16:33:00 -
[56] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:La Nariz wrote:Back to the topic at hand, highsec definitely needs a nerf so there can be more competition over nullsec via economic incentives. Nullsec needs the bottom up approach to work for alliance level income to combat the depopulation and to start the "farms and fields approach." Sov needs less HP/Timers and more objectives. People refuse to engage in diplomacy/negotiation/bargaining/politics in the zone that requires them and is all about them.
Did I miss anything?
For emphasis highsec is in dire need of a nerf. Pretty reasonable summary. Personally, I like to focus on the "more reasons and incentives for people to be in space doing day to day stuff, day to day stuff that requires cooperation and incentivizes competition". And this is applicable across all types of space, though it should manifest differently to accommodate the preferences and playstyles that the type of space caters to, as well as representing a coherent risk/reward balance across said space types. Everything else in the game will fall neatly into place, and changes that seem drastic on their own (power projection nerfs) will seem benign in a new game where the broken incentives that created these glaring imbalances no longer exist.
That's something I hadn't considered, if you fixed it so bottom-up income was a thing, a power projection nerf wouldn't be that bad of an idea because you have a reason to live where you are over highsec. You wouldn't need the power projection as much as you do now. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
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